An English Shooters Blog

It looks like .22 pistol shooting has returned to the main land of the United Kingdom, and about time too.

Just a couple of questions, why are the shooting organisations not shouting this from the roof tops it is a very big victory and the second question that may have an impact on the first question how can I get one for club competition?

It is a pity to read about this in “This is Exeter” rather than the NRA or NSRA websites or journals but please read the report and enjoy.

London 2012 Olympics hopeful Geikie allowed to shoot in UK  

The Prime Minister states that the Home Office will look at current gun laws to ensure they meet today’s requirements. (Shooting times)

Since the horrific events in Cumbria some people have been pushing for a review of the laws around the licensing of firearms and at looks as if this review will go forward, it is nice to see a level of maturity entering the review from the start. There has yet to be ant knee jerk reactions with politicians of all colours saying we should wait for the police review.

This could be a real chance to look at the licensing laws in this country had have the debate that was lacking in the late 90’s. This could be a chance to simplify the law’s and clear up some of the poorly drafted legislation that is so often rushed in. 

Perhaps with a real debate both inside and outside the shooting world we can show non shooters just why the sport is so interesting and why shooting should remain a sport that everyone can participate in.

Now that is a question.

This is a question that has been asked by the Adam Smith Institute in the last couple of days, with some interesting comments mostly for the idea of open or concealed carry.

What do you think?

Pop over and join in: http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/justice-and-civil-liberties/should-we-have-open%11carry%3f/

The text from the article:

Should we have open-carry?

The BBC news on Thursday night featured a report on the upcoming Supreme Court decision on the Chicago gun ban; litigation launched after the successful case of DC v Heller, which overturned a similar outright prohibition on handguns in Washington DC.
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This good news has been published on the Hansard and is public record.

It looks like the Home Office have granted 13 section 5 permits to potential UK pistol shooters so they can practice the sport of pistol shooting on the main land of the United Kingdom.

However there is now the small issue of where they can practice, as you can see from Hansard it looks like the government are still holding out on where they can practice the sport.

So 13 lucky people have been given permission by the Home Office to possess a pistol for sport, this is very good news and should be welcomed by the shooting community with open arms as the government are now trusting people again.

A couple of natural questions come out of the statement’s on hansard.

1. How do British Shooting know that they have the best people when there are so many people interested in the sport that are prohibited from taking part.
2. When will I be able to apply for me to have a section 5 permit so I can enjoy the sport, I know I will never be as good as the people who will compete at a high level in the sport but I see no reason why I should not be afforded the same privilege so I can participate at a local level or are the government not interested in local sport?
3. When can my son and daughter try pistol shooting at their local club to see if they like it as they may want to participate in the sport.

This “shock” headline will come as no surprise to those who keep up to date.

It is nice to see the Tories doing some adding up and seeing that the process they started in with the 1997 Firearms Amendment act has done nothing to to reduce gun crime in the UK.

Regaler readers of the blog will know my thoughts on this it is not the guns that you need to ban what you need to do is educate people in the use of firearms and then they will have a respect for them and not think they are a status symbol.

After all when the website Irrational Fear came to be the government said that the banning of toy guns would sort this problem out, if you take a look at the Irrational fear website you will still see the live feed showing one of my Air Soft pistols under constant surveillance showing that it is not the item that people should fear.

I also have a number of real firearms all locked away in my firearms safe, 3 shotguns, 5 Rifles and 2 long barrelled firearms and a nice muzzle loading revolver.

It is now well overdue that the government takes a look at both the policy that has been followed in the last 13 years and it’s failure and takes the necessary action to move to a more responsible outlook. Education is the key not prohibition.

If this government will not look at it perhaps the next one will!

I know that this is an old poster but I have not see it for a while and as much as it came out of the 1997 ban marches it is as relevent now as it was in 1997, lets hope that things will change for the better.

The Conservative party have published a document on the web called EXTENDING OPPORTUNITIES A CONSERVATIVE POLICY PAPER ON SPORT.

This PDF file can can find it at: EXTENDING OPPORTUNITIES: A CONSERVATIVE POLICY PAPER ON SPORT

The bit I like is on page 8 where it says the Conservatives would:

Amend firearms legislation to ensure the UK target pistol shooters can train and compete in this country. This will end the absurd situation where we use public money to support athletes to train abroad in an activity banned in this country.

In the last couple of weeks the The Liberal Democrats have come out in support for the The Sportsman’s Association calls for the 2012 games location and now this.

Could we be seeing the beginning of a change of attitudes?

Just to remind you of the 1997 quote from Home Office Minister Alun Michael said:  “We have now held a successful firearms surrender for large and small calibre handguns, which I believe has put a firm brake on the development of a dangerous gun culture in the UK.”

Five held over shotgun party sex attack 
Man wounded in drive-by shooting 
Two armed attacks at shop in week
Boy, 8, shot in abdomen and arm
Man badly hurt in street shooting
Man shot after gang enters house
Man shot dead in front of diners
Pupil shot in head with BB pellet
Armed gang get away with £100,000 in latest raid on security van
Inquiry into shots fired at house
Man charged over pub gun threat
Armed robbers target film store
‘Suspected firearms’ found in bag

In 2007 the Labour party had 177,000 members, the Tory party had 290,000 members and the National Union of Teachers had 200,000 members.

I think you would agree regardless of your politics they are political forces they are quite formidable and they do shape the way we live our lives.

Today in Written Answers Vernon Coaker said that there are 1,390,920 people on the Police National Computer, National Firearms Certificate Holders Register bit.

So if we where to get a little more organised couple we make a bit more of a positive impact on the sport & lifestyle that we have chosen or should we believe as we are continuality told we are a minority and to be grateful with the crumbs we are given.

So what shooting organisation could get even 50% of the numbers on the NFCH database to join and what could they do with that power?

I have a lot of time for the police and I think that they deserve out respect, they do a very difficult job and like the rest of us they have a hard time at the hands of the government.

I would like to say I was surprised and shocked to read over the weekend that “Police officers with convictions for gun crimes, benefit fraud and violent attacks are still serving.”, but sadly I was not.

So in theory the individual who is issuing your FAC could have a conviction for gun crimes……

See: Cops AND robbers – Police with theft and assault convictions allowed to stay in jobs

From the BBC today:

PCSO arrested over armed robbery 

An 18-year-old Police Community Support Officer (PCSO) has been arrested on suspicion of aiding and abetting an armed robbery in Reading.

She was held after a 28-year-old man was robbed of two mobile phones at gunpoint in his van in Strathy Close on 25 September.

A man, aged 22, was held on suspicion of conspiracy to rob and bailed.

The PCSO from the Thames Valley Police force was also released on bail and suspended pending the investigation.

The story about the PCO? or the fact that 28 year old man was held at gunpoint for 2 mobile phones?, I think this story underlined the Reliability of Government crime data once upon a time illegal guns where hard to get and only used on large criminal jobs now a 22 year old uses one to mug someone off two mobile phones.

From the Telegraph again:

‘Have-a-go heroes’ get legal right to defend themselves

This is a very important subject self defence and my reading of the law is not quite the same as the Telegraph’s.

In an attachment from the main report they have this as a list of what you can and can not do.

Have-a-go hero law: What you can and cannot do

WHAT YOU CAN DO

* Shoot or attack a trespasser on private land if they are challenged and run away

Now a few points, the first thing you “can” do shoot someone if you are fearful for your own life, I DOUBT THAT THIS IS THE CASE, the wording in the law has changes from unreasonable force to disproportionate force but I would not like to face the legal system as it stands saying that I thought my life was in danger because I know I would just get flattened by it and I would end up in clink.

Overpower a burglar or a mugger and use their weapon to attack them so let me get this right chap jumps out infront of me with a gun, I am now given permission  to get the gun from him and then use it, can you see this issue with this idea?

Shoot an armed robber in the “heat of the moment” using a shotgun stored in your home if threatened by them. I have just timed this and it takes me 186 seconds to get the shotgun out of the cabinet, get the cartridges from the other cabinet load them in the shotgun and be ready to use the shotgun. I am on my own in the house and I do not have an intruder tiring to stop me getting to my shotgun, also I am sure that my SGC / FAC would be revoked but a little later onto day I may write to my local police asking for a shotgun for self defence that I can have under the bed not the law is written that I can use one…….. but a shot pistol would be better but that is a different post.

In short if you read this “information” in the papers please be careful the law has not been changed a couple of words have been amended but you have not more or less protection than you had a couple of years ago, do not go shooting people in your house thinking the law will protect you it will not you will go through the rininger like everyone else and remember the conditions on your FAC / SGC self defence has not been a gooe reasion since the 1950′s then again prehaps I should quote the article and ask for my self defence shot pistol.

If you are a regular reader of the blog you will know that a few things get under my skin.

Firstly the banning of pistols, knee jerk and / or rushed legislation and the number of times the government feels it must be seen to do something rather than addressing the issue.

The pistol ban of 1997 began life after the horrific actions of one man who should never of had pistols, the then Tory government the commissioned a report on the events from that report but not contained within the proposal to ban all large calibre pistols came into being even though the report did not call for a ban the government needed to be seen to do something and to show that the new Labour party could be seen to be doing something more a second amendment came to the front banning all small calibre pistols.

In 1998 on the BBC website the then Home Office Minister Alun Michael said: “We have now held a successful firearms surrender … which I believe has put a firm brake on the development of a dangerous gun culture in the UK.

“Today’s deadline for surrender of small calibre pistols completes the government’s drive to take all handguns out of general civilian circulation.”

Mike Yardley of the Sportsman’s Association said that the laws would not help to prevent another tragedy occurring.

So why are we looking at this again, well on the BBC there is a “Report questions gun crime policy”, the report go on to say that:

“While gun crime accounts for only a fraction of the total number of offences recorded by the police, it said the trend had been upwards over the past decade before recently falling.

But it also argued there was no evidence to suggest a strategy of banning weapons and mandatory sentences in England and Wales was having an effect.”

The trend has been on the up ever since the ban, the government have made the item itself an object of desire rather than questioning peoples use of it. The mandatory sentences are a joke I only know of 1 that has been given since the 5 year mandatory sentence was introduced and that was only a few days ago.

In a commons debate about the need for witness to be anonymous in some court cases Jack Straw quoted Sir Igor Judge who was quoting a detective who specialised in murder investigations who said “…In many but not all cases, the witness knows of the defendant and their associates. They know they have easy access to firearms and the ‘ease’ with which they are prepared to use them”.

Now for me to get hold of a firearm I would need to apply to the police, they would come a visit my home to check the security ask about the use of the firearm and if everything was OK I would be able to send my FAC off for a variation this process takes between 12 – 24 weeks where I am.

It would appear that the development of a dangerous gun culture in the UK was not stopped by a governments knee jerk actions and the need to be being seen to be doing something. 

The only outcome is that no one on the mainland of the UK can enjoy the sport of pistol shooting legally (you are ok if you live in Northern Ireland, Iles of Man, or the channel Islands), the only thing they can do is travel to other countries in the EU or the world and impost on their hospitality to enjoy the sport while we watch the dangerous gun culture develop in the United Kingdom and watch the government do more things that do not address the situation.

This is a gun (Glock 17)

This is a paint gun (Collision Repair and Refinish)

This is from the BBC

Paint gun sparks armed response

An armed siege was sparked in Newcastle by a man later found to be brandishing a paint gun.

Armed police were called to an address in Banbury Road, Fawdon, after reports a man had been seen with a firearm on Sunday evening.

The man handed himself into officers after talks with a specialist negotiator, a spokesman for Northumbria Police said.

A 21-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of firearms offences.

Ever since the handgun ban of 1997 members of the public in England, Scotland & Wales have been told that sport is not a good enough reason to have a handgun.

Over the last little while many people have asked the government to allow the public to have access to .22 pistols for sporting use and today in a written reply I think a the Home Office now admit that a pistol is fine for sporting use.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2008-05-12a.204462.h

Stephen Crabb Conservative MP for Preseli Pembrokeshire asked:

To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport what recent representations he has received on arrangements for target pistol shooters to train and compete in the UK; and if he will make a statement.

Gerry Sutcliffe Parliamentary Under-Secretary, Department for Culture, Media & Sport and Labour MP for Bradford South replied:

I have had no recent meeting to discuss the issue of Olympic target pistol shooters. This issue is being taken forward by colleagues at the Home Office who have secured agreement in principle from the Ministry of Defence on use of their ranges by a small squad of elite pistol shooters. Home Office Ministers have also agreed to allow a small number of elite shooters to possess their pistols at home for ‘dry training’, subject to satisfactory checks under section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968.

Now it looks to me that the Home Office is willing to allow members of the public to have pistols at home and use them for sporting use. This is a good day in my eyes as the main point about members of the public has been settled, members of the public are now going to be able to have pistols at home for sporting use. 

The only outstanding points now appear to be how many and where they can be shot.

I have never minded the idea of having a process to have access to handguns for sporting use after all we have a FAC for section 1 firearms and a SGC for shotguns why not a Section 5 for pistols.

I guess the question is where do I get the application form, perhaps a call to the local firearms liaison officer may be in order to ask.

Jeffrey M Donaldson the DUP MP for Lagan Valley has asked this question:

To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether any person with a conviction for membership of a proscribed paramilitary organisation in Northern Ireland has been granted a licence to carry a personal firearm since 1998.

Paul Goggins Minister of State in the Northern Ireland Office has responded:

The Chief Constable of the Police Service for Northern Ireland has advised that the information requested is not readily available and could be obtained only at disproportionate cost.

Now I can understand that devideing the numbers down into who is a member if group a as aposed to group b can be difficult but he should have been able to give an accurate number as to the number of licence to carry a personal firearm have been granted as requested.

Could it be that the number of licences issued would show that people can be trusted with firearms or that the removal of pistols for members of the public in the UK has had no impact on firearms related crime?

Read the rest of this entry »

I was stunned to read the following words during a debate in the Scottish Parliament.

Tragically, since 1998 hundreds of murders, attempted murders and robberies have involved pistols and revolvers. As all members know, the vast majority of such weapons have already been banned. Banning the guns did not prevent the crimes. It would be a mistake to confuse legally held firearms with the illegally held firearms that are all too often used to commit crimes. We all know about the increasing number of concerning incidents involving air-guns. However, the problem is not the legally held weapons. It is the illegally held weapons that we ought to focus on.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2008-01-17.5217.0

I do believe that the SMP John Lamont has hit the nail on the head, lets hope that words like this are headed over the coming days and weeks.

While debating the 1997 handgun ban in 1997 this was said in the House of Lords:

“Throughout the passage of the 1997 Act, the Labour Party was remarkably consistent in demanding even tougher legislation, including a complete ban on handguns. It was in its election manifesto as a specific commitment and is trumpeted as the Labour Party’s answer to the problem of illegal use and possession of firearms. Its position, as I understand it, is that if legal handguns are banned, then in some miraculous way, as suggested by the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, illegal ones will disappear. If that is not enough, public opinion, at least for the moment, clearly believes the Government’s claims for the Bill. In these circumstances, the Salisbury convention will click in. Consequently, we on these Benches will not oppose the question that the Bill be read a second time, despite the fact that we believe it is a rotten measure.”
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld199798/ldhansrd/vo970630/text/70630-05.htm

In today’s edition of The Time Online this is one of the headlines: “Police face new test: how to stop child of 8 armed with a gun?”

This article in the Times is well worth a read as it a stark example of just how the 1997 handgun ban has not stopped the development of a dangerous gun culture in the UK.

I will remind you of what Home Office Minister Alun Michael said: “We have now held a successful firearms surrender for large and small calibre handguns, which I believe has put a firm brake on the development of a dangerous gun culture in the UK.”

The current situation is not a success and needs to be looked at again, I have said it before education is the key, people (not just kids) need to learn about firearms, what they are and how to use them safely. Children will rise to what is expected of them expect them to the gun touting thugs and the will be, expect them to treat firearms responsibly and teach them how to do it and they will.

If the 1997 ban is such a success why it is children that where board 3 years after the ban that are becoming an issue? When will politicians admit that they went after the wrong people and correct one of the injustices?

To read the text of the Times article please click more.
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Yesterday on the BBC’s South Today TV program there was some preamble about the up and coming National Shooting Week, the clip showed the modest Michael Gault saying that it is up to the likes of him to show shooting in a better light, this is a job of each and every shooter as well.

 I think one of the best quotes from the segment came from  Martin Salter MP who is the government’s spokesman on shooting sports, he said:

“I haft to say that the Dunblane handgun ban did absolutely nothing to stop the amount of illegal guns that are in circulation, and I see no reason why Britons law abiding shooters why Britons Olympic gold medallists should be disadvantaged as a result of holes in out legislation.”

If the governments spokesman on shooting sports can see no reason why then may I suggest that his fine words are taken and acted on. Perhaps with the change in the air that appears to be on the way we should all take this opportunity to remind our own MP’s that their electorate would like to see a change so the sport can be enjoyed by all Britons in all of the shooting clubs.

If you are outside the catchment area of South Today or if you missed it take a look at the segment:  http://www.glossover.co.uk/rts/download/21May2007-BBCSouthToday.wmv

Now things like this always catch my eye, so when I heard about this on the way home today I thought I had better read a little about it before jumping to conclusions.

Now I have read about it I am concerned that someone is playing games or is just ignorant of the already tighten gun licence rules.

Mr Hardwick from the Independent Police Complaints Commission is due to raise a very important point at the Police Federation of England and Wales conference today, the point is this:

From the BBC report http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6658421.stm .

“He is expected to express concern over about 12 suicides or murders where licences should have been revoked.”

Mr Hardwick is expected to tell delegates in Blackpool: “We are concerned about the number of fatal shooting incidents – suicides or murders, often with a shotgun – where there do seem to have been warning signs before the incident that suggested the firearms licences should have been revoked.”
“If causes for concern are identified – such as violent incidents or mental health problems – we need to see if more stringent arrangements should be in place to decide whether the licence – and the firearm – should be reviewed,” he will say.”

Now read what he is saying because this is very important, also be aware that I have no problems with the content of what he is saying. The problem is that the police have the powers to do this already.

Every Firearms or Shogun licence holder is aware that if they do anything illegal that their permission to own a firearm will be revoked.

This is not a might be revoked but will be revoked.

The rules are in place, if they are not being applied then this is not the fault of the rules and having new rules will not solve that has already been identified, discussed & has processes in place to deal with.

The rules have been in place for many years and if applied then the horrific events of Dunblane ma not have happened, if the Independent Police Complaints Commission have identified more cases of legal firearms related deaths that could have been prevented by the application of rules that have been in place for many years then where is the problem? Is it the rules or the process?

I do not have a problem with the rules, I do not have a problem with the application of the rules what I have an issue with is the Independent Police Complaints Commission saying that the rules need to be tightened when they have all the rules & powers they need. If the current rules that would have had peoples licence revoked are not being applied then  why will a tighter rules be applied any better?

I do hope that this is not smoke and mirrors to give the impression that the police are powerless to do anything, and on a separate note where are the UK shooting organisations they should be pointing out the lack of understanding of the current rules, perhaps we will see a statement clarifying the comments / situation from them in the next couple of days.